Interview: Bob Santelli on the “Songwriters Hall of Fame Experience” Exhibit at the GRAMMY Museum
Bob Santelli interviewed by Ryan Purcell
Today on Gotham, editor Ryan Purcell interviews Bob Santelli, Executive Director of the GRAMMY Museum, and lead curator of the Songwriters Hall of Fame Experience now on view at the CUNY Graduate Center.
What makes great music? What gives it power to sway our hips and emotions? These are some of the questions behind the Songwriters Hall of Fame Experience exhibit at the CUNY Graduate Center. Founded in 1969 by songwriter Johnny Mercer, the Songwriters Hall of Fame (SOHF) has celebrated the work and legacy of some of the most significant songwriters in American popular culture. The esteemed ranks of SHOF’s inductees include prolific teams such Rogers and Hammerstein (who helped compile the Great American Songbook), and Holland-Dozier-Holland (the songwriting engine that drove Motown), as well as solo songsmiths from Carole King to Mariah Carey. Curated by the GRAMMY Museum, the Songwriters Hall of Fame Experience showcases a sample of artists with a special attention to the creative processes behind American popular music historically. Visitors will learn about musical lives including Smokey Robinson and Wood Guthrie, through hand-written lyrics, records, audio-video recordings, costumes, and instruments on display in the exhibition.
There is virtually no aspect of American popular music that has not crossed Bob Santelli’s path. Starting out as a correspondent for Rolling Stone magazine in the seventies, Santelli went on to help open in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, Ohio. He has published books on the blues and American folk music, and has been a frequent lecturer on American music at Rutgers and Monmouth Universities, and now at Oregon State University, Santelli continues the share his knowledge an insight about popular music. Among other major accomplishments, Santelli was named the founding Executive Director of the GRAMMY Museum and GRAMMY foundation in 2017. As the lead curator of the Songwriters Hall of Fame Experience, Santelli brings a flavor of GRAMMY museum, and his experience, to New York.
What is your favorite story/artist on display in the exhibit?
My favorite, without question, is Woody Guthrie. And the reason why I say that is because I have been a student of Woody Guthrie’s work and life for as long as I can remember. Just recently, back in November, Nora Guthrie, Woody’s daughter, and I published a collection of Woody Guthrie’s writings and artwork. I had been involved with the Woody Guthrie Archives. So, anything related to Woody Guthrie is close to my heart and, of course, we have a notebook of his on display. It was a little frustrating with that because we were not able to open the notebook. It’s about seventy-five years old, and you just can’t keep a notebook of that age in one position for as long as the exhibit is going to run. Therefore, what you get to see is the cover of the notebook. And hopefully that applies enough inspiration for aspiring songwriters to know that contained in that notebook are lyrics, song ideas, etcetera that go all the way back to the heyday of Woody Guthrie.
How does the GRAMMY Museum support emerging artists (who might one day win Gammys themselves)?
Piano (Steinway), played by songwriter Victor Herbert. In the early 20th century, Herbert championed the rights of composers to profit from their work and advocated for the Copyright Act of 1909, which helped secure the rights of composers to receive royalty on the sales of sound recordings. In 1914, Herbert helped found the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers (ASCAP) and served as its VP and director until he dies in 1924. (Courtesy of American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers)
Our whole mission is really predicated on the idea that we are an educational resource. Not just for fan, or students or teachers, but especially for musicians and songwriters. The way you do that of course, is to create exhibits, such as the one that’s in New York right now. But also, to provide public programs and initiatives, mentorships, workshops, all the things that allow aspiring songwriters to dig deep into their craft, and also to meet songwriters — successful songwriters — people who now make a living writing songs. So, it’s in our DNA, if you will, to reach out and diminish the distance between successful songwriters and aspiring songwriters.
Can you share a bit about your journey that led to your role as a curator?
I am from New Jersey and back in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s I wrote for Rolling Stone among other periodicals, I was teaching at Rutgers University, and I had just published an encyclopedia on the blues.
At the time, Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone was the person behind the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame along with Ahmet Ertegun, the great record company executive from Atlantic Records. And Jann deputized five writers from Rolling Stone to be this new thing called “Music Museum Curators” and I was one of them. And the reason why is that I had just published a book on the Blues, I knew the world of roots music thanks to my previous work as a journalist, also this book. So, I jumped at the opportunity to do this. After the museum had opened, two of the five, myself included, moved to Cleveland, Ohio, and opened the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. At that point I left the curatorship, and became the first Director of Education and Vice President of Public Programs at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because I was the only one who had teaching experience. So, I did that until I was recruited by the late Paul Allen formerly of Microsoft. to be his CEO at Experience Music Project in Seattle. So, I left both curatorial and education and became head of a museum. When I went down the GRAMMY museum, I always kept my curatorial chops. And very often, including this time, jumped in to curate. I love curating. It’s a thing I do best, and it’s also the thing that’s closest to my heart. So, all through my seventeen-years at the GRAMMY Museum, I was always involved with curation.
The GRAMMY Museum claims to explore the “enduring power of music.” From your perspective as a journalist, and curator, what give popular music power?
Shirt (Robert Graham) Brian Wilson, The Beach Boys (Courtesy of Brian Wilson)
One of the greatest, if not the greatest cultural representations of America is its popular music, for such a long time. It endures simply because the unique characteristics of America music, where there’s this incredible coming-together of traditional Anglo music with West African rhythms — something that no other country in the world had — allows for this music not only be a great representation, and reflection of who we are, but it’s good, it’s great. Routinely, the rest of the world catches up. So, hip hop is the world’s pop music. Well for almost fifty years, it’s been our pop music, but now the world embraces it. We make, as Americans, great popular music, and we’re the envy of the world because of it.
I’ve traveled all over the world, from Russia, to Brazil, to South Africa, and wherever I’ve gone, ever, I’ve heard American music — sometimes not being interpreted so great, but I heard it. Whenever I say who I am, and that I work with the GRAMMYS, people flock with questions about Michael Jackson, about Bruce Springsteen, about Bob Dylan, whatever it might be. So, America music has this magnetic power that simply does not go way.
What role does music play in your life?
Music plays the role, the most important role in my life outside of my family. There’s not a day that I don’t listen to music, there’s not a day when I don’t think about music, and on most days I write about music. So, music has been an identifiable part of who I am, how I see the world, what I believe in, and how I think about myself.
Since I saw the Beatles in 1964.on the Ed Sullivan Show, like so many people of my generation, the Baby-Boomer Generation, that moment changed everything. And so, from that point on I can clearly say that I had my eyes fixed on something connected to American popular music.
That’s a long time ago, and over those many, many years I’ve explored so many paths and avenues of American popular music: a musician, a journalist, a museum educator, a museum curator, a university lecturer, a museum executive, a concert producer, an album producer, winning a GRAMMY for album production on Pete Seeger, working on the Smithsonian on their music initiatives, brining concerts to the White House for president Obama. I’ve had such a really, really good ride, and I’ve been able to experience the world in a very unique way and I thank all of that to my enduring, on-going love affair with American music.
Are there lesson within the exbibit about music and history are pertinent for Americans today?
Album Cover, “Rapper’s Delight,” Sugarhill Gang, September 1979 (GRAMMY Museum Permanent Collection)
The first thing you learn, I hope, is that song writing as an art is not easy to do. To be able to express yourself musically, with lyrics, and melodies, and be able to have what you come up with related to a lot of people, is really difficult to do. Anyone can say they write songs, but not everyone can say they write good songs. So, we want to let you know that this art of songwriting is something that you work hard toward; It’s something that never ends. You’re learning about the craft, you’re learning about yourself, you’re learning how to express yourself in different ways. Every artist that’s represented in the exhibit, from Smokey Robinson on down, will tell you that this is something that requires not only skill but time and patience. That’s the first thing.
The second thing is that, our country, our nation, our culture, is really built on a musical experience. If you go all the way back in time when we weren’t even a country yet, there were song writers selling something call broadsides. Old English drinking songs expressed freedom and the desire for the thirteen colonies, to resist British imperialism and authority. So, you have that kind of situation where it’s always been a part of who we are. And by understanding songs we become more sophisticated listeners, and when we become more sophisticated listeners, we’re better to understand our culture and ultimately ourselves. So, it’s not just an artform to be entertained by, it’s an artform to learn from and perhaps even more importantly to be inspired by.
You can visit the “Songwriters Hall of Fame Experience” June 15- July 24, 2022 at the The James Gallery, CUNY Graduate Center, 365 Fifth Avenue at 35th Street.
Curator: Bob Santelli (Founding Executive Director, GRAMMY Museum)
Co-Curator: Jasen Emmons (Chief Curator and VP, Curatorial Affairs, GRAMMY Museum)
Bob Santelli is the executive director of the Grammy Museum and former CEO/artistic director of the Experience Music Project. He is the author of nearly a dozen books and a contributor to magazines such as Rolling Stone.
Ryan Purcell is an editor at Gotham.